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rfgdxm
03-25-2004, 10:36 PM
Just found out about this from my website log referrals, of all places. I
refer to this:

http://www.projectghb.org/prescription_drug.htm

Carl Hennon
Age 18

I Sit Here Thinking
by his mother, Misty Fetko

I sit here thinking: "Where do I begin?" My son is dead. He was only 18
years old. Despite the pain those words represent, I know that I must write
this letter to share with his friends, classmates, parents and teachers, the
horrible lessons of his passing. When Carl Hennon passed away on July 16,
2003, my whole world crashed in on me. "What happened?" was all that kept
racing through my mind.

In the days since his death, I have discovered many things that have shocked
me. It hasn't been that long since I was 18. I remember what it was like. I
listened to Carl. I talked with him every day, about everything - or so I
thought. I asked the right questions - or so I thought. For all the things
that Carl had shared with me, he had a secret that would ultimately prove
fatal.

Carl had discovered through the aid of the internet and through his friends,
the powerful, psychedelic properties of Robitussin; a legal,
over-the-counter, cough suppressant. Carl died from a fatal combination, an
accidental overdose; of Robitussin and a prescription narcotic taken while
"Robotripping". It was not suicide.

Why Robitussin? Because it contains dextromethorphan, or DXM, which in high
doses act as a "dissociative anesthetic" much like ketamine or PCP. Many
websites are providing information on these "designer drugs;" how to use
them, what other drugs to use them with, how to group "trip," etc. Why was
Carl using these drugs? Why did we have to find out by reading his autopsy?
We will never know, but certainly he thought that he had found a legal,
affordable, and safe alternative ? all supported by information available on
numerous websites.

Why weren't there any signs? I was looking for the illegal, street drugs,
but this wasn't my nemesis. My nemesis was actually sitting on a drugstore
shelf, or in a medicine cabinet; secretively, legally, and affordably.

Information is powerful; I only wished that I had had this information
before Carl passed away, and then maybe I could have helped him more. There
is no safe "trip". There are no controls or guarantees. It doesn't matter
that you are 18, healthy and smart. It can happen to you. It happened to
Carl. My only hope is to reach out and inform. If I can touch at least one
life, then I know that someone else will not being saying their final
goodbyes to their sweet child, and then sitting down with pen in hand,
wondering where to begin. My son is dead. He was only 18 years old.

-----

Begin rfgdxm comments:

I have in my possession the actual coroner's report for the death of Carl
Hennon. It list that fentanyl (an opioid) was found at toxic levels, and
levorphanol (another opioid) was found at therapeutic level.
Dextromethorphan was also found, but at therapeutic levels. Trace amounts
of other drugs, like caffeine, nicotine, and cannabinoids were also found. I
actually spoke with the coroner to confirm that the DXM levels found were
indeed in the therapeutic range. "Therapeutic" levels here mean consistent
with taking in amounts recommended on the bottle.

According to the source that tipped me off about this case, Carl was a
DXM (ab)user. However, according to the coroner's report, calling this a
death involving DXM is about as accurate as calling this an overdose involving marijuana. From what my source indicated, empty bottles of
Robitussin, and also Dramamine, were found in his home. My best guess is
that the DXM found in the autopsy was from recreational use days ago.
However, that isn't what killed him according to the coroner. It was instead fentanyl.

I didn't report this previously because the DXM use didn't appear
material to the death. And, I was concerned about family privacy. (My source
wasn't a family member.) The death notice in the paper said "natural causes"
in the paper according to my source to protect family dignity. However, now
that the family has gone public, things seem to be different.

More comments later.

KILLBILL
03-25-2004, 10:42 PM
Ask the coronor if you can quote him. Inform the family that they are being totally misleading.

EDIT - oh yes, and I couldn't find a contact address on that website but if I were you I would e-mail those in charge of the websites to let them know that their story is misleading.

My suspicion is that they won't care.

rfgdxm
03-25-2004, 11:09 PM
I've got the coroner's report next to me right now. It is public record.

"A Comprehensive Analysis In Blood Has Been Performed.

"The Following Agents Were Detected:

(Only relevant ones listed)

"X Fentanyl 2.74 ng/ml Blood

"T Levorphanol Trace Blood
"T Dextromethorphan 14.0 ug% Blood

...

"T: Amounts Present Are Consistent With Therapeutic Levels
X: Amounts Present Are Consistent With Toxic Levels"
----

The amount of DXM is listed as a normal therapeutic level, and when I asked the coroner he indeed said this was so according to a medical text about tox levels for DXM. The immediate cause of death is listed as:

"Drug (fentanyl, levorphanol, dextromethorphan)"

However, that is just because all are CNS depressants. Levorphanol was found at unmeasurably low levels, hence just listed as "trace". That toxic level of fentanyl is more than adequate to explain this death. If I put this up on my website as a DXM death, then I should be also listing any heroin overdose death where slight amounts of DXM were detected becuase the heroin addict took some OTC medicine with DXM added to clear up the sniffles from a cold. I say the spotlight in this death should be on the fentanyl, and not the ordinary amounts of DXM consistent with using as directed on the package found in his system.

KILLBILL
03-25-2004, 11:24 PM
I agree with you.

Dexation
03-26-2004, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 11:09 PM
"X Fentanyl 2.74 ng/ml Blood

"T Levorphanol Trace Blood
"T Dextromethorphan 14.0 ug% Blood

...

"T: Amounts Present Are Consistent With Therapeutic Levels
X: Amounts Present Are Consistent With Toxic Levels"
----

The amount of DXM is listed as a normal therapeutic level, and when I asked the coroner he indeed said this was so according to a medical text about tox levels for DXM. The immediate cause of death is listed as:

"Drug (fentanyl, levorphanol, dextromethorphan)"

Here is another problem. The coroner's report is a public record. It shows T Dextromethorphan 14.0 ug% Blood. Even though there is a footnote about T being amounts consistent with therapeutic levels, and the Fentanyl was present in toxic levels, there is still no comparison or indication as to what ranges those levels actually are for the public to view.
Not all of the public who view this report will no what "T Dextromethorphan 14.0 ug% Blood" means or have the means to figure it out. Some will not even really know what therapeutic levels are.
With something to use as a comparison for these doses, the relatives and friends of the deceased will have a better idea of what the actual cause of death had been.
Thank you for the information
Dexation

boulderguitarist
03-26-2004, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by [email protected] 25 2004, 10:42 PM
Ask the coronor if you can quote him. Inform the family that they are being totally misleading.

EDIT - oh yes, and I couldn't find a contact address on that website but if I were you I would e-mail those in charge of the websites to let them know that their story is misleading.

My suspicion is that they won't care.
I found the contact adress, and i to would write a letter, but i don't have an email adress while on im on vacation, post it in this thread or PM me and let me know how they reply or if they even dignify you with an answer

http://www.projectghb.org/contact.htm

rfgdxm
03-26-2004, 12:59 AM
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 12:20 AM
With something to use as a comparison for these doses, the relatives and friends of the deceased will have a better idea of what the actual cause of death had been.
No. Read that link I gave above.

"I asked the right questions – or so I thought. For all the things that Carl had shared with me, he had a secret that would ultimately prove fatal."

"Why weren’t there any signs? I was looking for the illegal, street drugs, but this wasn’t my nemesis. My nemesis was actually sitting on a drugstore shelf, or in a medicine cabinet; secretively, legally, and affordably."

That's what his mother wrote. According to her, not only was she oblivious to her son's DXM use, before he died she didn't have a clue that OTC cough medicines could be used recreationally. She writes that she found this out only after researching it on the Internet after his death. She knew nothing of the amounts of DXM that her son was taking. From a source close to the family I was in contact with, only after he was dead, and Robo bottles were found in his room, did the family become aware of his DXM use. Those Robo bottles consumed could have been taken hours before his death, but also may have been taken days or weeks before his demise.

As such, the only source of relevance is the coroner. One open possibility is the coroner may not have interpreted the data correctly. I'm looking into this possibility in fact at this moment. I've got the full post-mortem tox results. Looking at them again, I have some doubts, and will need to have these interpreted by people with the expertise to do so. The problem here will be that with the coroner stating that the DXM levels were at ordinary, therapeutic amounts, imagine the political implications if I were to question these publicly on a high visibility website. The problem I have is the mother is publicly calling this a DXM death on the Internet. I can't just ignore that. Basically, I'll have to take some position. Either the coroner, his mother, or both won't like what I have to say. :(

rfgdxm
03-26-2004, 01:09 AM
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 12:38 AM
I found the contact adress, and i to would write a letter, but i don't have an email adress while on im on vacation, post it in this thread or PM me and let me know how they reply or if they even dignify you with an answer

http://www.projectghb.org/contact.htm
I'd suggest you wait until I sort all this out with scientifically credible sources. It's possible that based on the data I may conclude it looks like a fentanyl + DXM OD death, and both were material. If so, then that projectghb.com site may have it half right. The problem is that while that site states "Carl died from a fatal combination, an accidental overdose; of Robitussin and a prescription narcotic taken while “Robotripping”.", basically it totally glosses over all that fentanyl in his system (fentanyl isn't mentioned by name even), and focuses on DXM. If the fentanyl alone would have been a fatal dose, this is highly material. Basically, from the autopsy results this kid may have been a serious polydrug abuser. Anticholinergics were also found in his system too.

libel
03-26-2004, 01:15 AM
The problem is that while that site states "Carl died from a fatal combination, an accidental overdose; of Robitussin and a prescription narcotic taken while “Robotripping”.", basically it totally glosses over all that fentanyl in his system (fentanyl isn't mentioned by name even), and focuses on DXM. If the fentanyl alone would have been a fatal dose, this is highly material. Basically, from the autopsy results this kid may have been a serious polydrug abuser. Anticholinergics were also found in his system too.

Exactly. Terms can be very misleading in varied contexts.

KILLBILL
03-26-2004, 01:52 AM
I suggest you e-mail or talk to a toxicologist who is willing to spend a few minitues looking over the results or find an article about DXM metabolism and concentration of it and its metabolites in the blood. See if the reported value for Mr. Hennon is consistent with the literature values.

I wouldn't write anything myself that made any assertions that I did not feel were justified.

T|mba|and
03-26-2004, 02:23 AM
After recently losing a loved one myself, I can empathize with this mother's loss. She was just expressing her loss through the media. Though he probably didn't die from a DXM OD/combo, I'm sure it was disturbing that she found out he had drug habits, legal or not.

How would you feel if your child died from an OD? I'd be pissed too. Which do you think he probably used first, fentanyl or DXM? He was probably on a dex binge on Monday and a fentanyl high on Wednesday. Did DXM kill him? Probably not, but it quite possibly could have led to his other drug endeavors. Just speculation on my part, but I read that article as her seeing DXM as a gateway leading to her son's ultimate death. His mother has every right to voice her opinions. My prayers go out to them.

SpiralDarkSeraphim
03-26-2004, 08:03 AM
:crazy: I wonder why DXM is becoming SO demonized in our culture right now. I am sure it is because of, of course, the "War on Drugs" and the fact that it is as yet "new" to our society, in the mainstream that is. People always attack what they don't understand.

It is within the realm of possibility that his frequent Dex use, and Dex use that very day (whether he has traces left over from a recreational dosage, or if it had been a theraputic dosage taken more recently) had worn down his bodies resistence to Opiates. Dex lowers the LD50 for opiates when taken simulaneously, from what I've read. However, the main cause of death is OBVIOUSLY the Fentanyl and not Dextromethorphan. And the fact that this is being ignored, and the truth is being TWISTED to make it look like a Dextro overdose, is appalling in my opinion.

Walkaway
03-26-2004, 09:30 AM
---
> After recently losing a loved one myself, I can empathize
> with this mother's loss.
---
I can empathize with her position, certainly. I don't hate her. I don't think she deserves to be beaten up for saying irrational things.
---
> She was just expressing her loss through the media.
---
Yes, and her expression of loss will in turn become 'established fact' for many people.
---
> Though he probably didn't die from a DXM OD/combo, I'm
> sure it was disturbing that she found out he had drug
> habits, legal or not.
---
Teenagers?!? Using drugs?!?!?!?
---
> How would you feel if your child died from an OD?
---
I imagine that I would feel sad. However, her child did not die of a DXM overdose, and her sadness does not excuse her misrepresenting the facts.
---
> I'd be pissed too.
---
Would you misrepresent the facts?
---
> Which do you think he probably used first, fentanyl or DXM?
---
Which do you think he probably used first, mother's milk or DXM? I rest my case.
---
> He was probably on a dex binge on Monday and a
> fentanyl high on Wednesday.
---
Groundless speculation.
---
> Did DXM kill him? Probably not, but it quite possibly could
> have led to his other drug endeavors.
---
LOL @ DXM as gateway drug.
---
> Just speculation on my part, but I read that article as her
> seeing DXM as a gateway leading to her son's ultimate death.
---
Using the same logic, mother's milk was the gateway leading to his ultimate death.
---
> His mother has every right to voice her opinions.
---
Yes, and I have the right to voice mine, and everyone else has the right to voice theirs.
---
> My prayers go out to them.
---
I don't pray, but they have my sincere sympathy.
---
Namaste,
Cliff

boulderguitarist
03-26-2004, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by T|mba|[email protected] 26 2004, 02:23 AM
Just speculation on my part, but I read that article as her seeing DXM as a gateway leading to her son's ultimate death. His mother has every right to voice her opinions. My prayers go out to them.
Who's to say DXM was the gateway drug, maybe he was into opiates long before he discovered DXM, infact this could have been the first time he even used the drug. The thing that angers me so much about the mother are the speculations shes making without evidence. I sympathize for her, but she has no right to spread these false words. Sounds more like a publicity stunt to stop dxm than it does grieving.

Just a question for those who know more about opiates, is it possible he mistook the fetynol for heroin, which would explain the reason for accidental OD is im not mistaking. I dunno i may be way off, but i just recal reading somewhere that it's sometimes sold as heroin but it's 100 times more potent or sumthing. Please correct me if im wrong

rfgdxm
03-26-2004, 05:45 PM
I really don't want to post what I am about to. However, as the mother has chosen voluntarily to publicly comment about the death of her son on the Internet, then I have to conclude that privacy in this matter is not her desire. As such, I consider it reasonable that I reply to her public statements. As I possess a copy of the full autopsy report, and even communicated with the coroner about this case, my comments are based on publicly available official documents and findings. I am basing what I write on science, and not rumors and hearsay.

The coroner's report says:

"T Dextromethorphan 14.0 ug% Blood"

That "micrograms percent" means the number of micrograms in
100 milliliters of blood. IOW, it is 100 times higher than expressing it in terms of ug/ml. Thus, the amount of DXM found in his blood post mortem was .14 ug/ml. This is indeed an amount consistent with a therapeutic dose of 30 mg.

At that URL the mother states:

"Carl died from a fatal combination, an accidental overdose; of Robitussin and a prescription narcotic taken while “Robotripping”. It was not suicide."

The above is accurate only if you happen to consider taking 2 teaspoons (10 ml) of Robitussin Maximum Strength cough syrup to be a "Robotripping" dose. Maybe that DXM found in Carl's system was residual traces from him taking "Robotripping" doses a couple days earlier. However, the coroner's report clearly states that at the time of his death, he only had an amount of DXM in his system typical of a normal, recommended on the bottle dose.

I have no desire to bash a mother who lost her 18 year old son to drug abuse. However, I must respectfully state that what she has written that appears on the Internet at that URL is not consistent with what is in the coroner's report. I suspect she misunderstood this part of the coroner's report:

"Cause and manner of death

"Immediate cause: Drug (fentanyl, levomethorphan, dextromethorphan)"

The coroner just listed all 3 because the are all respiratory depressants, and the presumptive cause of death was respiratory depression leading to asphyxiation. However, when you read the full report it states that DXM (and also levomethorphan) were found at ordinary, therapeutic levels. Thus, all the coroner was stating is that the ordinary, therapeutic levels of DXM found in his system may have been a contributing factor. NOT that he had been taking DXM at (ab)use levels. Calling Carl's death being due to DXM would be as accurate as if I took 30 mg of DXM in the form of cough syrup later tonight, and then and hour later mainlined a huge amount of heroin and ended up dead, and someone characterized my death as a DXM overdose. A more reasonable interpretation would be that all that heroin I blasted was sufficient to explain my demise.

This situation totally sucks, and I apologize if anyone is offended at my comments. However, I have been reporting on DXM deaths for a while. I call 'em as I see them, and one of the things I use to call 'em is something called science. And the coroner called it the same way. I sympathize with this mother over the loss of her son to drugs. I merely am pointing out the drug that killed Carl isn't DXM.

Magnus_Grey
03-26-2004, 05:57 PM
Hey rfg, thanks for the info. I'll tell you what, if you pm me a final draft of what you plan on sending to his mother I will give you my thoughts on it. I fully respect the parrents in these kind of situations, and this is not the best time to try and teach them anything about drugs themselves, just to help them get on with their lives without getting caught up in the drug itself. This kind of thing is what I most respect you for btw. I just wish you would break down and tell me a joke one day, since I have been asking you for years now.

-Bryan

rfgdxm
03-26-2004, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 09:30 AM

I can empathize with her position, certainly. I don't hate her. I don't think she deserves to be beaten up for saying irrational things.
---
> She was just expressing her loss through the media.
---
Yes, and her expression of loss will in turn become 'established fact' for many people.
---
> Though he probably didn't die from a DXM OD/combo, I'm
> sure it was disturbing that she found out he had drug
> habits, legal or not.
---
Teenagers?!? Using drugs?!?!?!?
---
> How would you feel if your child died from an OD?
---
I imagine that I would feel sad. However, her child did not die of a DXM overdose, and her sadness does not excuse her misrepresenting the facts.
---
> I'd be pissed too.
---
Would you misrepresent the facts?
---
> Which do you think he probably used first, fentanyl or DXM?
---
Which do you think he probably used first, mother's milk or DXM? I rest my case.
---
> He was probably on a dex binge on Monday and a
> fentanyl high on Wednesday.
---
Groundless speculation.
---
> Did DXM kill him? Probably not, but it quite possibly could
> have led to his other drug endeavors.
---
LOL @ DXM as gateway drug.
---
> Just speculation on my part, but I read that article as her
> seeing DXM as a gateway leading to her son's ultimate death.
---
Using the same logic, mother's milk was the gateway leading to his ultimate death.
---
> His mother has every right to voice her opinions.
---
Yes, and I have the right to voice mine, and everyone else has the right to voice theirs.
---
> My prayers go out to them.
---
I don't pray, but they have my sincere sympathy.
---
Namaste,
Cliff
>I can empathize with her position, certainly. I don't hate her. I don't think she deserves to be beaten up for saying irrational things

Agreed.

>Yes, and her expression of loss will in turn become 'established fact' for many people.

This is the problem for me. I'm top of the heap in most search engines when it comes to this drug. I had filed this case away last year because the facts didn't support it being a DXM death. No longer can I just ignore this. :(

>Teenagers?!? Using drugs?!?!?!?

He used more that just DXM. The coroner's report mentions that pot, and a pipe to smoke it, was found at the scene of his death. And, cannabinoids were found in his system. Should we blame his death on reefer madness?

>I imagine that I would feel sad. However, her child did not die of a DXM overdose, and her sadness does not excuse her misrepresenting the facts.

This may be too harsh. More likely she doesn't know how to interpret the facts. I was sufficiently confused by the official copy of the autopsy report that I obtained I chose to directly contacted the coroner for a clarification. The coroner politely explained what he meant in his report, and stated that he didn't mean to call this a DXM overdose. Merely that an amount of DXM consistent with therapeutic use of this drug was found in the autopsy.

>I don't pray, but they have my sincere sympathy.

Nor do I pray. I do sympathize with this mother. It is just that the evidence doesn't support this being a DXM OD.

Magnus_Grey
03-26-2004, 06:32 PM
I do sympathize with this mother. It is just that the evidence doesn't support this being a DXM OD

And she shouldn't spend the rest of her life trying to prevent others from overdosing on cough syrup.

-Bryan

Dexation
03-26-2004, 07:17 PM
Is it unreasonable to ask the coroner to either change the report to state what the actual cause of death was or to make some sort of a post after the fact statement to that effect?

This is why i mentioned earlier about having something to compare those levels to. The average person won't know what the DXM levels stated on the report mean. They are more likely to be interested in the mother's finding of cough syrup bottles in the room or that the report actually lists DXM as the cause of death among other drugs. There needs to be some point of reference such as "the levels of DXM were consistent with a single dose used for a cough." Something like that might help put it in a proper perspective.
This is going to be tricky at best but i know there is a way to present the truth to the public without rubbing salt into the wounds of the family.

My best goes out to you with this project, rfgdxm and my sympathies to the family of the deceased.
Dexation

KILLBILL
03-26-2004, 07:32 PM
ORAL ADMIN OF 10 MG DEXTROMETHORPHAN/KG RESULTED IN PEAK PLASMA LEVELS OF 50 & 92 NG/ML @ 2 HR. LESS THAN 3.5% OF DOSE EXCRETED IN URINE AS INTACT DEXTROMETHORPHAN INDICATING ALMOST COMPLETE BIOTRANSFORMATION &/OR ALTERNATIVE ROUTE OF EXCRETION.
[DIXON R ET AL; RES COMMUN CHEM PATHOL PHARMACOL 22(2) 243-55 (1978)]**PEER REVIEWED**


--------------------

That "micrograms percent" means the number of micrograms in
100 milliliters of blood.


Are you sure about that?

50ng/mL and 92 ng/mL converts to 0.050 ug/mL and 0.092 ug/mL, or 5.0 ug% and 9.2ug%.

If 10mg/kg could produce 9.2ug%, then how could therapeutic levels produce 14 ug%?

rfgdxm
03-26-2004, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by [email protected] 26 2004, 07:17 PM
Is it unreasonable to ask the coroner to either change the report to state what the actual cause of death was or to make some sort of a post after the fact statement to that effect?

This is why i mentioned earlier about having something to compare those levels to. The average person won't know what the DXM levels stated on the report mean. They are more likely to be interested in the mother's finding of cough syrup bottles in the room or that the report actually lists DXM as the cause of death among other drugs. There needs to be some point of reference such as "the levels of DXM were consistent with a single dose used for a cough." Something like that might help put it in a proper perspective.
This is going to be tricky at best but i know there is a way to present the truth to the public without rubbing salt into the wounds of the family.

My best goes out to you with this project, rfgdxm and my sympathies to the family of the deceased.
Dexation
>Is it unreasonable to ask the coroner to either change the report to state what the actual cause of death was or to make some sort of a post after the fact statement to that effect?

Yes, unless such was based on solid evidence.

>The average person won't know what the DXM levels stated on the report mean.

What coroner's do you know who care much what the average person knows? I've had a coroner not want to talk to me, and only did *after* I told him the URL of my website and he entered it in the browser on the computer on his desk.

>They are more likely to be interested in the mother's finding of cough syrup bottles in the room or that the report actually lists DXM as the cause of death among other drugs.

Unless what the mother says is buried so far on search engines few will ever read it. Which site is #1 today on Google when you enter "dextromethorphan" in the search box? My site would be offline if I didn't renogiate bandwidth terms with my host.

>There needs to be some point of reference such as "the levels of DXM were consistent with a single dose used for a cough." Something like that might help put it in a proper perspective.
This is going to be tricky at best but i know there is a way to present the truth to the public without rubbing salt into the wounds of the family.

True. I am considering the possibilities here. As of now, I have made no changes to my website.

>My best goes out to you with this project, rfgdxm and my sympathies to the family of the deceased.

Me too. I am considering contacting the family of the deceased directly.

KILLBILL
03-30-2004, 12:18 PM
Wow, that's misleading. I tried finding the article by Dixon et al. where I found the pharmacokinetic information and it's actually titled:

DEXTROMETHORPHAN - RADIOIMMUNOASSAY AND PHARMACOKINETICS IN DOG

Pope_Ov_Utah
03-30-2004, 02:08 PM
I’m going to blame the patches.

One of my friends used to work at a record store, and the owner died from a patch OD. He had trouble with his back, and had a history with prescription drug abuse. So they prescribed him the patches. He was only prescribed to use one at a time, but he slapped 3 of them on. His heart rate slowed down, he fell asleep and he died. The guy was only 33 years old, married, and had a daughter. It was pretty sad.

I'm not sure if the patches in my story are the same patches this kid was using, but they were opiate releasing pain relieving patches.

vapor
04-06-2004, 12:52 PM
I seriously doubt that they were patches, I have also heard of them, but time released patches such as those are usually researved for people whom have long lasting (meaning all the time) mild to moderate pain (anything about moderate, will most likly cause a prescription of morphine sulfate quick release tablets at 30mg each or 60mg at extended release rate). So he was probubly takeing a orally ingested version of his opiods.

While my deepest sympathys go out to the family for their tragic lose of their son, as walkaway said, I still cannot look the other way while others are given misinformation about his death. I am not only thinking about this for the benefit of the community, but for the woman herself. She has the right to understand exactly how her son died, as any parent has the right to know the exact cause of their loved ones death.

This is not for a reason of closure, its for a reason of clarity. So that she may understand. And for another important reason. For the community of responsible recreational users of dextromethorphan. Now im not bitch and moaning about all the bad hype we get, but when it concerns the lose of a life, i tend to take concern. While granted, it is bad media, it more importantly is a falisidty, wich is more serious and injust to me (and the community) than some bad hype on NBC, or some senator trying to pass a dextromethorphan sales restriction bill.

Well rfg, I immensly respect the work your doing, it really puts my mind at ease to know that somone as responsible and dedicated as you seeks the truth among all the maddness in this world. :)